Finished "The History" by Herodotus

I didn't finish the whole book, only the three pieces that were listed this time from my Great Books reading list; namely, Polymnia, Urania, and Calliope.

I love reading Herodotus. Remember the movie 300? It's like reading the book, one battle after another and what this king said, or what that city tried to do. It's exciting.

Mardonius, one of Xerxes generals, says, "It were a monstrous thing if, after conquering and enslaving the Sacae, the Indians, the Ethiopians, the Asserians, and many other mighty nations, not for any wrong that they had done us, but only to increase our empire, we should then allow the Greeks, who have done us such wanton injury, to escape our vengeance. What is it that we fear in them? - not surly their numbers? - not the greatness of their wealth? We know the manner of their battle - we know how weak their power is; already have we subdued their children who dwell in our country, the Ionians, Aeolians, and Dorians."

The Persians were a warring people. According to the Greeks they were barbarians. They were pretty stinkin' fierce from what Herodotus writes. I'd like to read more about them from their own perspective and see how these same battles were portrayed differently. I've read before that if the Persians had taken over Greece (more than they did), things would be a lot different today. Most of our western heritage stems from Greece but if the Persians had won, maybe that history would be different. I know that they got pretty far in "conquering the world" and that they did some pretty heavy damage to Greece and Athens, but what was the turning point? What happened that made the Persians leave the area?

Finished "Prometheus Bound" by Aechylus

This book marks the first of the third year of reading "The Great Conversation". I can't believe I've finished two years of reading. I feel like I've accomplished something great by only reading, noting, and writing for about an hour a day.

I love this story! Prometheus bound to a rock and tortured forever (because he's immortal) by Zeus, the tyrannical new king of the gods, because he gave humans tools to become independent and self-reliant.

He gives the prophecy of Zeus' fall along with the Io's future. He could repent and be freed. Some of the other gods are willing to try and changes Zeus' mind but he refuses to back down to a young tyrant. Potent stuff, all the more because Prometheus is immortal and must endure his punishment forever.

These ancient stories show us how much we have in common with ancient people, how little the human race (what it means to be human) has changed over thousands of years.

Finished "On Liberty" by J.S. Mill

I really enjoyed reading this book. There were loads of great quotes that really resonated with me, especially regarding what seems to be happening in our country recently.

Individual liberty was the theme through this book and I was pleasantly surprised to find much that I could agree with. I recently had heard an interview with a woman that wrote a book about Mill and that he wasn't the warrior for liberty people think he is. I plan on reading that book someday, but it's a bit pricey! It's called "John Stuart Mill and the Religion of Humanity "
by Linda C. Raeder.

I've been writing about the book as I read because there was so much to talk about. Here is the last quote I found, "a State which dwarfs its men, in order that they may be more docile instruments in its hands even for beneficial purposes - will find that with small men no great thing can really be accomplished;"

What makes mankind great is adversity. The decisions we make, the lessons we learn from those choices is what makes us stronger and on a larger scale, a better nation. If we, as a nation, attempt to take away all the danger, make it so that only the safe choices can be made, we lessen ourselves. And who decides what is right and safe for who? What makes one group better able to make those decisions than another?

More from "On Liberty"

I got this quote this morning. It's one that brings me comfort, knowing that the struggles we have today are essentially no different than those humans have been working over for thousands of years.

"...in the United States - the feeling of the majority, to whom any appearance of a more showy or costly style of living than they can hope to rival is disagreeable, operates as a tolerably effectual sumptuary law, and that in many parts of the Union it is really difficult for a person possessing a very large income to find any mode of spending it which will not incur popular disapprobation."

"It is know that the bad workman who form the majority of the operatives in many branches of industry, are decidedly of opinion that bad workmen ought to receive the same wages as good, and that no one ought to be allowed, through piecework or otherwise, to earn by superior skill or industry more than others can without it."

I think I like this...

I'm really enjoying this book, "On Liberty". Usually I wait to post about the whole book at once when I finish it, but these little gems keep coming up and I think it would take too long to write one big post, so I'm posting as they come up.

Here's one from today.

"But independence of action, and disregard of custom, are not solely deserving of encouragement for the chance they afford that better modes action, and customs more worthy of general adoption, may be struck out; nor is it only persons of decided mental superiority who have a just claim to carry on their lives in their own way. "

Everyone deserves to live and make choices as they see fit, regardless of their position in society. I'm not sure Mill really believed that though, but maybe he did when he wrote this and changed his mind later in life. I'm going to take it as it is here though.

I grow weary sometimes of people who believe some people can home school but some should not. I'd rather encourage everyone to educate themselves and their own children, regardless of where they stand right now. Some people should be able to choose where they live and what to eat, but some just don't have the capacity to make the "right" choices. There are no right choices.

"The spirit of improvement is not always a spirit of liberty, for it may aim at forcing improvements on an unwilling people; and the spirit of liberty, in so far as it resists such attempts, may ally itself locally and temporarily with the opponents of improvement; but the only unfailing and permanent source of improvement is liberty, since by it there are as many possible independent centers of improvement as there are individuals."

Some believe that if we only had this style of government or another, then everything would be good, everyone would have what they need. That just isn't true. People who believe that the most liberty is best, don't believe that if we each had maximum liberty then we would be living Nirvana. We believe that if we have the highest individual liberty possible, then we each have a higher chance of making the right choices for our own person at the right time for us. No one knows me and my needs better than I do. And no one is more responsible for my decisions than I am.

More from "On Liberty"

"It is not by wearing down into uniformity all that is individual in themselves, but by cultivating it, and calling it forth, within the limits imposed by the rights and interests of others, that human beings become a noble and beautiful object of contemplations; and as the works partake the character of those who do them, by the same process human life also becomes rich, diversified, and animating, furnishing more abundant aliment to high thoughts and elevating feelings, and strengthening the tie which binds every individual to the race, by making the race infinitely better worth belonging to."

I'm really enjoying reading this book. My only problem with it is that the author ultimately believes these ideas belong to certain classes of people; women, children, and barbarians excluded. I just can't see how you can believe that allowing people to strengthen themselves through liberty will bring those at a lower level up by association, but that it doesn't apply across some boundaries. Won't anyone who associates with liberty be brought closer to that ideal?

The quote above is another that stuck home with me regarding education (my favorite subject). It's what I believe the system of education we use in the United States public schools does to people, "wearing down into uniformity". It isn't the way humans develop.

From "On Liberty" by J.S. Mill

Usually I wait until I'm done reading a book before I comment on it, but this one has so much, I'm afraid I'll forget or it will lose impact if I put them all together in one book.

Here's my favorite quote from this today.

"I believe this view of the subject is mostly confined to the sort of persons who think that new truths may have been desirable once, but that we have had enough of them now."

Every idea was new at one point. Jesus and His ministry was totally new. People had to stop, read, discuss, and accept this new premise of who God really loved. If we believe He is the Son of God and the way to heaven, we need to be able to hear new ideas about God and compare them to our current beliefs and make the personal choice of what we believe.

Some good ones from "On Liberty" by John Stuart Mill

From Chapter 2, Of the Liberty of Thought and Discussion

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."

On silencing opinions, "If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of trough, produced by its collision with error."

How about those quotes? It's something I've been working on myself. When I see an article that I disagree with, I should read it and try to see their point of view. It may be wrong or right, but I need to really know it to decide.

"Judgement is given to men that they may use it. Because it may be used erroneously, are men to be told that they ought not to use it at all?"

This one made me think of the way we are raising our kids. I think we need to help our kids use their judgement, not judge for them. The only way to become better at making choices is to exercise your judgement. I know most people raise their kids making almost all choices for them until they are adults because they may make bad judgements. Don't you think that is dangerous? Wouldn't it be better for people to let kids make choices when they are younger, when they have the safety net and advice of a trusted adult? 

"Fundamental Principles of the Metaphysic of Morals" by Kant

I'll admit that this book was pretty hard. I could read it but most of it went right over my head. At times there would be a line that would stand out to me and I could connect with it, but then the next sentence would lose me. Luckily, there is YouTube! I found a video series by a philosophy teacher, Gregory B. Sadler. His lectures gave me a basic understanding and when I read the text, I got more from it.

 I'm sitting here trying to put into a few words the basic idea of this book. I guess I would say it's the idea of duty and whether or not there is an innate idea of duty in humans. Kant seems to think there is. I think there is because we are rational beings and that rationality (or free will) is what makes us in the "image of God". We have the power to choose one way or another and that is what creates a duty to do certain things.

What makes us a rational human is the fact that we can use our free will to create laws for ourselves. We can make a goal for ourselves as individuals or groups. These ends can be subjective, or personal and shape our rules for our own impulses and desires. Or they can be objective ends, universal for all humans and absolute. 

There are strict duties and meritorious duties. Strict duties are things you should do because it is right to do so, not because you will get something from it. Meritorious duties are things they are good and you may get something out of it.

Like I said, I didn't fully grasp this text. I felt like he was talking over me, like another language you kind of understand so you only pick up words and phrases.

Here is something that really resonated with me though. The idea that each person has his own value. Each person is worth something, his being here on this earth is an end of itself. Even if that person were a lump on the floor that never chose to do anything, or couldn't, just them being here makes them have worth, dignity. He has an absolute value.

"Act in such a way that you always treat humanity, whether in your own or that of another person, never simply as a means, but always at the same time as an end."

Wow. People are not tools. This includes yourself. Can you use yourself? Yes! If you refuse to use your free will to control desires or inclinations that are beneath you or lessen your dignity.

Everyone should be treated with dignity because they have free will and will be more likely to choose good if they are treated with respect. This is the idea behind Radical Unschooling. I always find it fascinating to read these philosophical texts and find ideas people consider "radical" even today. Everyone includes children. They aren't monsters.. How will they learn to respect others and act in a civilized manner, if they are never treated that way?